"Oh, I know Quakers..."

This morning I was at a non-profit networking function and ended up talking to a nice lady sitting next to me. We chatted about the usual - kids, their foibles, the challenges, the quirks. Through various statements, it became clear that she is a Christian lady who goes to church regularly, and I think she figured she was in the company of all Christians because she didn't avoid the topic of religion as one would expect in a social/business setting with people you've just met. Still, it was all very light and harmless.

And then the conversation turned ...

I won't bore you with how we got to this point, but I said, "Well, my dad's side of the family is Quaker. I guess I identify with that more than any other Christian faith, but there aren't many Quaker meeting houses in Colorado, so we don't attend anywhere. " (Note - I did Google and found 12 in Colorado, the closest being about 30 miles away. I was surprised that there were 12, I figured less than a handful. Learn something new every day.)

Anyway, she immediately responded, "Oh, *I know* Quakers." Her expression and tone seemed kind of disparaging so I asked her (very nicely, with a smile) what she meant.

"Well, I'm from Philly! Of course I know Quakers, they're all over the place. There's a Quaker community not far from where I used to live, actually."

Hmm. "Oh? Now, just making sure here, but the Quakers aren't Amish - are you sure you're thinking of a Quaker community?"

"Oh no, it's not Amish, it's Quaker. I just love the town. The horse drawn buggies are so cute."

OK, I figured I would just move on - for all I know, there is a Quaker community in Pennsylvania and maybe they have some horse drawn buggies. Whatever. I tried to draw the conversation back to center a little.

"From what I've seen in the genealogy, my dad's side of the family way back immigrated with Penn in the 1600's, but they kept going and settled in Ohio. It's just a very simple faith. I like it, and I would have a difficult time going to a 'traditional' Christian church regularly. I couldn't do it." I ended with a shrug, figuring that since she knew about Quakers, she would understand.

At this point, the lady on her other side chimed in. I'd been kind of watching her out of the corner of my eye, since I'm always a little leery of religious discussions in public and especially in business settings, but she had been nodding in all of the right places. She had also been open about being a churchgoer and quite active in her congregation, but seemed more accepting of what I was saying.

"It's too ritualistic for you, isn't it?"

Right on! I was surprised, but pleasantly. Now, though, the lady next to me looked really baffled, so I explained that things like communion, baptism, confirmation, marriage ceremony ... none of that. No altars, no statues of the Virgin Mary. I told her that I was baptized and confirmed on the same day, and that I really resisted it and didn't want to do it but at the time, we had moved west and were going to a Methodist church, which was more my mother's side of the family.

She was shocked. "But - why don't Quakers baptize their babies?"

"Because they are not born in sin and it's an unnecessary ritual for a relationship that exists only between the person and God."

She appeared seriously shaken by now, and I decided to have a little fun.

"You know, the Catholic Church even abolished limbo this week, so all of those unbaptized folks who have been languishing for eons are good to go now."

"What's limbo?"

Argh.

"And another thing - back in the day and probably now among the more traditional Quakers, Christmas wasn't celebrated."

"Oh yes, I knew that - Quakers don't care about Jesus, it's not part of the faith."

Splutter ... "What?? No!! That's not why. Quakers are Christians, as in 'Christ.' They don't celebrate Christmas because God gave us every glorious day and there's no need to raise one day above another. "

I told her that the Puritans didn't celebrate Christmas either, that it was flat outlawed, and that nobody thought THEY weren't Christians. Besides, December 25th is an arbitrary "birthday."

It was still a pretty friendly tone, but in an attempt to keep it that way, I joked that the dangly earrings I was wearing would have also been frowned upon, at which point the other lady said, "Yes, they would have been considered frivolous adornment, right?" Two points for her.

We wrapped up around then because thankfully we had another speaker coming up, but it just stuck in my head all day. I really don't have a problem with the fact that this lady clearly has her own beliefs and if that's what brings her comfort, so be it. But beyond obvious disagreement with the Quaker beliefs, which is also fine as long as I don't end up with a hole poked in my tongue, I was really bothered by the lack of knowledge of other sects of Christianity. It doesn't really surprise me when people don't know much about Quakers, but it's also an ignorance American history. William Penn was a key figure in colonial history, and he is who most people think of as a famous Quaker, moreso than the founder George Fox.

There was also the confusion about limbo, which indicates both a lack of knowledge regarding Catholicism and literature. I just don't get it. How can you be comfortable in your own beliefs if you haven't taken the least interest in learning about others?

To me, Quaker beliefs make sense, and they have for as long as I can remember, even though I don't think I've ever been to a Quaker meeting and don't recall my father or grandmother ever talking to me about the Quaker beliefs as a child. I learned about "church" from friends, from going to a Christmas service occasionally, from going to a Methodist church when we moved to Illinois, and from school. I never thought baptism made sense for babies - what could they possibly have done that was so bad that God would send them to Hell if they didn't get some water splashed on them? Communion seemed a little silly, but at least it was a chance to walk around during church and have some grape juice and a cracker. Confession? Right out of the question. I didn't see why anyone put up with that nonsense but since we weren't Catholic, it wasn't my problem. And although I love beautiful cathedrals, I like the idea of a simple Quaker meeting house better, and not being inside at all would be ideal. Actually, I remember one time as a late teen (after my family had resettled again in East Texas), my mother tried to get me to go to an Easter service and I finally just said no, that she could go sit in her boring little manmade church, I would prefer to sit on the front porch and look at God's creation directly, including that bird right over there.

Don't get me wrong, I am not mocking my mother or the Methodist church. It's just not for me. Her desire for me to go to church was rooted in love and I understood that, but after a while I think she realized it was a losing battle to try to get me to go to a traditional church and she let it go. Later in life, she and my dad moved to Vermont and attended a very simple Quaker meeting regularly, and just recently they moved back to East Texas and attend a very nontraditional church (not Quaker) that holds services outside. I think, though, that she's a Quaker at heart and it just took her a while to break away from her idea from childhood of what church should look like.

Anyway, it was just an odd conversation and a part of me wants to say a little prayer for her, even though she probably wouldn't appreciate it or think it's necessary. But still, maybe I'll just say one for us all.